American Bar Association Reports On AIDS/HIV

Wayne Parsons
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Posted by Wayne ParsonsApril 26, 2009 3:08 PM

The AIDS/HIV health crisis is now thirty years old and the subject continues to challenge society around the world. The Rule of Law has faced difficult challenges as the basic concept of individual rights and cultural mores clash. In California we have witnessed a long battle in the streets, the courts and the ballot box. The recent Proposition 8 battle regarding domestic partnerships has been in national headlines. All sides of this battle are passionate. The association of AIDS/HIV is not however an issue of sexual orientation although it is often politically charged because of that perception.

The American Bar Association has been a leader in providing a comprehensive and learned view of the legal aspects of HIV/AIDS. The ABA recently has published a report on the subject that should be read by all policy makers, politicians and journalists. The Report preamble by Shelley D. Hayes, Chair of the ABA AIDS Coordinating Committee sets the stage:

Too many Americans are living with chronic diseases without access to necessary care and treatment. Many of our citizens who are infected with HIV fall into that group of Americans.

As we approach the thirty year mark of the HIV/AIDS epidemic, it is appropriate for us as a nation to reflect on the distance we have traveled and the length of the road still ahead. We have made great strides in developing drugs that prolong the lives of those who take them. But, we have a long way to go before all who can be helped by those drugs know that there is help available and have access to that help. Even as public health officials move away from “AIDS exceptionalism,” stigma and discrimination continue to haunt those infected with HIV and limit their access to adequate care and treatment.

For more than 20 years, the American Bar Association has worked to raise the conscience of the bench, bar and public as it pertains to the legal issues raised by the HIV/AIDS epidemic in this country and around the globe. We bring those issues to the fore in 2009 in the hope that the much-discussed initiatives to reform health care in America will include a national response to the continuing domestic HIV/AIDS crisis.

Reporting that recent data indicates that the domestic HIV problem is greater than previously thought, the call for greater federal funding is justified to deal with this serious health issue:

According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), approximately 56,300 new HIV infections occurred in the United States in 2006. This figure, based on improved data collection and analysis, is roughly 40% higher than CDC’s former longstanding estimate of 40,000 infections per year. Yet while federal funding for the global pandemic has increased markedly in recent years, funding for the domestic epidemic has been flat, cut, or increased only marginally, with potentially devastating consequences. Indeed, in the U.S. as elsewhere, HIV now affects primarily low-income communities of color, particularly women and youth, who long have experienced more limited access to public health systems, including to HIV prevention, care, treatment, and support services.

The comprehensive analysis in the ABA report covers the homeless population, access to health care, incarcerated populations, sex education, insurance, public assistance and testing programs.

This divisive health crisis must be addressed addressed by all of the decision-makers if we are to stem the tide of the tragedy that follows those affected. Congratulations to the ABA for adding this scholarly analysis to a subject that goes to the core of the Rule of Law.

37 Comments

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Michael Ellner
Posted by Michael Ellner
April 26, 2009 4:50 PM

One can only wonder how Injury Lawyers will react to discovering that not one of the alleged HIV-tests that are used to screen for HIV-antibodies or viral particles are PROOF of an active infection!

In fact, there is compelling evidence that all positive results are false positives in lieu of validation by a gold standard and that tens of thousands of people have had their lives destroyed by bogus positive results. Still others based their decision to take potentially life-threatening medications on the test, and many of those who did take the medications died of heart, liver, pancreatic, kidney or respiratory failure - treatment side effects that are dismissed as either AIDS or complications of HIV.
(More ... )

FYI- THIS IS FROM HIV TEST-KIT INSERTS: * At present there is no recognized standard for establishing the presence or absence of HIV-1 antibody in human blood. (Abbott Laboratories HIV Test - ElA) * The risk of an asymptomatic person with a repeatedly reactive serum developing AIDS or an AIDS-related condition is not known. (Genetic Systems HIV Test - Peptide EIA) * The AMPLICOR HIV-1 MONITOR test is not intended to be used as a screening test for HIV or as a diagnostic test to confirm the presence of HIV infection (Roche, Amplicor HIV Test PCR). * Do not use this kit as the sole basis of diagnosis of HIV-1 infection. (Epitope, Inc. HIV Test - Western Blot)

At the very least, one would hope that we could trust the validity of these tests! We can not!

Please consider me a resource if you want to investigate this further-

Thank you for your consideration.

Michael Ellner
President, HEAL (Health Education AIDS Liaison-NYC)
212-580-3471

Charles "Gos" Rich
Posted by Charles "Gos" Rich
April 27, 2009 6:45 AM

...And as an HIV-positive who has had his life ruined and who was nearly killed about 10 years ago by misdiagnosis and highly inappropriate medical treatment after testing false positive, please consider me a potential plaintiff in any class-action suit against the companies that manufacture these ridiculously unreliable and unverified tests.

Charles "Gos" Rich
gos@nerosopeningact.com

Gene "Nick" Semon
Posted by Gene "Nick" Semon
April 27, 2009 10:44 AM

As an experienced risk management professional, allow me to second the above comments.

The points regarding the law and "efficient causes" of harm and how "molecular biology" has gotten it wrong in so many ways are too much for this communique.

I will point out that many scientists are convinced that AIDS and other chronic diseases will only be solved by "systems biology" that considers total exposure profiles of injured persons and valid protocols of differential diagnosis.

Please consider Michael Ellner's offer.

Wayne ParsonsInjuryBoard Attorney Member
Posted by Wayne Parsons
April 27, 2009 1:11 PM

Thanks for these comments. I was unaware of the scope of this problem. I am interested in more information on the misdiagnosis (false positive) and treatment issue.

Wayne ParsonsInjuryBoard Attorney Member
Posted by Wayne Parsons
April 27, 2009 2:17 PM

Thanks. I am interested in more facts and history and resources on this subject.

Elizabeth Ely
Posted by Elizabeth Ely
April 28, 2009 12:52 PM

Testing . . . My previous post did not go through.

Edward Lieb
Posted by Edward Lieb
April 30, 2009 1:30 AM

Please consider me a plaintiff too. Based on these invalid tests, I was told, on January 7, 1988 that I had, at most 2 years to live without early medical intervention, which could extend my life a year or two, by which time "we'll have a cure or vaccine." Yeah, right.

As my risk factors were ten years prior to my diagnosis, I did not believe what I was told. In fact, I had had no health problems, not even a cold or a headache, since 1980, until a head injury in June of 2008 put me in the hospital. While still in a dazed state I was tested for HIV against my wishes and without my consent and then put on AZT -- the most horrible AIDS drug ever, a failed chemotherapy drug from the sixties that was deemed to toxic to even be tested on humans. When I refused to take it, it was put in my food without my knowledge!

Later I was switched to another AIDS drug, Atripla, which I had no choice but to take or I would have found myself out on the street and in no condition to care for myself. I thought I could take it for the time I was in the hospital and then in a rehab (I had to relearn how to walk.) and then stop the drug after I was released. But no one warned me that once you start this drug, which earned its manufacturer's $500 million last years, you can't just quit. Normally one can wean off these toxic AIDS drugs by cutting the dosage by 25% every two weeks until you are off them, but Atripla is an "enteric-coated" tablet which cannot be cut. When cut, the raw drug is exposed and the effects are devasting. I tried taking 3/4 of one and couldn't fall asleep for seven hours.

The "side effects" are horrendous. I've had constipation for several days followed by incontenence. On the nights when I can sleep, nightmares are a common occurence. Then there's the side effect that makes me want to kill the doctor who did this to me, and myself -- lypodystrophy. The drug has caused me to lose muscle from my arms and legs and gain fat deposits around my midriff, chest and pubic area.

And perhaps worst of all, I can't find a decent practicing attorney to help me right these wrongs. Your comprehensive and learned view of the legal aspects of HIV/AIDS is based on what many call the biggest medical blunder in history. Others call it the cruelest hoax ever and the ultimate disgrace of our nation. Thousands of highly esteemed, highly intelligent people in all walks of life have been calling for a unbiased, scientific reappraisal of the HIV/AIDS theory, but to no avail.

After nearly 30 years and over a trillion dollars cost, it is obvious doctors will never end AIDS. Only lawyers can do it. But it takes more courage and balls than most seem to have.

Hooray for Michael Ellner for speaking out on this subject.

John Robert Hankins
Posted by John Robert Hankins
May 06, 2009 5:07 PM

Having first tested HIV+ on a Navy entrance exam when I was just 18 years old in January of 1986 and surviving the AZT holocaust against the gay community I will proudly serve as a witness in any class action suit against Big Pharma and the CDC as a healthy survivor who does not take the "meds." I mistakenly sporadically took them for four years out of fear, but I don't any longer and I'm as healthy as any 42 year old man. I don't have lipodystrophy because I took the weaker drugs in the recent past. Big Pharma is now attempting damage control and trying to say lipodystrophy is caused by HIV in and of itself, which most of the gay community knows is an outright lie. I am living proof of that as well as the lie that HIV=AIDS=DEATH and the fallacy of the recent push for early treatment upon testing positive on an unreliable test, which in my mind is driven by greedy and arrogant sociopaths and is equivalent to reckless disregard for public safety and crimes against humanity. This makes the wall-street and banking scandal look like childs play, at least they didn't murder people that we know of.

Wayne ParsonsInjuryBoard Attorney Member
Posted by Wayne Parsons
May 06, 2009 5:52 PM

Thanks Mr. Hankins. I am unaware of any lawsuits to date but the stories, like yours, are amazing to me. I am interested in whether anyone has takenb action across the US. Edward Lieb abd Elizabeth Ely also report compelling accounts of aspects of this issue that I was totally aware of until I came across the ABA materials and wrote the article. What do you suggest?

Elizabeth Ely
Posted by Elizabeth Ely
May 06, 2009 6:14 PM

Thanks for getting in touch, Wayne.

I'll look into the resources you mentioned.

I, too, have been at a loss to find products liability lawsuits on AIDS drugs. On visiting the Legal Tech expo in New York a few years ago, I asked a sales rep to do a legal database search of lawsuits, and all we came up with were people suing for lack of access to these drugs -- nobody complaining that they had been injured by them. This baffled me, as from reading the clinical studies alone I suspected a lot of damage.

One suit that was dropped a couple of years ago was Kim Bannon's in Kansas. An activist in California, Jeremy Selvey with "Project AIDS," was working on something in the '90s, and San Francisco attorney David Steele had a more recent case on AZT. But from what I've heard, most plaintiffs get a lot of pressure to settle out of court--secretly, quietly, with no admission of wrongdoing. The records on these cases would be very enlightening.

Wayne ParsonsInjuryBoard Attorney Member
Posted by Wayne Parsons
May 06, 2009 6:18 PM

I am amazed by all of this Elizabeth. Keep the information coming if you discover new happenings. Can anything get the press and the Congress to look at this? Why is it hidden from view?

Edward Lieb
Posted by Edward Lieb
May 07, 2009 1:17 AM

Can anything get the press and the Congress to look at this?

When I was told, on January 7, 1988, that I was HIV-positive and had two years to live, knowing I had no risk factors in over five years, and still believing in the virus myth, I thought I had found the cure. In 1980, I was turned on to a simple exercise claimed to boost the immune system. I credited this with my good health despite being "infected." Having introduced several HIV+ friends to this and noting that all of them were alive and well with no medical intervention, while, at the same time, I lost over 100 friends who had faith in their doctors and had passed away, I thought I'd discovered the cure for AIDS and was anxious to share this information with the world, but it seemed if it wasn't a drug, no one was interested. Besides the press, I contacted AmFAR, GMHC, ActUP and even the Clinton White House. I was especially excited that Mrs. Clinton, an attorney, was going to be in charge of our nation's health care, as I stated previously that only lawyers, not doctors, can ever end this crisis. To my surprise, no one was interested and my letters went unanswered. This struck me as very strange since prior to writing about the AIDS controversy, all of my letters to the editors were published. I've had letters published in the New York Times and several other NY papers and even did an editorial reply on NBC-TV.

I closed one of my letters to Hillary with words to the effect of, "If you really don't understand what is going on here and believe your policies are helping people, God help us. If you do understand and just don't want to rock the boat, God help you." I was told by a friend in Washington that this could be interpreted as a veiled threat and to expect to find myself on an FBI watch list.

Two periodicals of the time did report on this HIV/AIDS controversy. One, the New York Native, a gay weekly, regularly ran articles by John Lauritsen until ActUP activists pressured Native advertisers to withdraw their advertising and forced the paper out of business. The other publication was SPIN Magazine, published by Bob Guccione, Jr., and featured a regular column by Celia Farber, who was recently given a "Clean Hands" Award by the Semmelweiss Society for her whistle blowing. SPIN was bought out, Guccione replaced, and Celia's column dropped, all very quietly.

When I realized that going through normal channels would not work, I started two public access TV shows in New York City to get the word out. I naively thought that in 13 hours of programming in the city that was home to about 80% of the nation's medical experts as well as the United Nations and embassies from almost every country on Earth, we could expose this medical blunder and end AIDS. My program, Accent on Wellness, took on a life of its own and ran for ten years. "Heal This Week," which was the voice of HEAL (Health Education AIDS Liaison) aired for thirteen years. We didn't end the fraud, but we've helped thousands of people, one at a time, to get out of the AIDS zone.

"Why is this hidden from view?" you ask. Many years ago I listened in on a phone call when an AIDS promoter told my associate "There's too much money in this to rock the boat right now." Well now, nearly two decades later, there's more money than ever. Nearly 30 years and a trillion dollars have been wasted barking up the wrong tree. Orthodox medicine is the major religion of the country. Were the truth to come out and be accepted by the masses, it could cause more chaos than the current economic crisis. A fictional account called "The AIDS Trial" used a factual argument to support a $3 trillion class action lawsuit for the 300,000 (mostly) gay men who were murdered by their doctors from 1987 to 1997. The toll has risen significantly since then.

Can someone in your position interest some conscientious attorneys to take on the challenge of ending this epidemic of fraud, greed, genocide and racketeering? Perhaps this should be a RICO case.

Wayne ParsonsInjuryBoard Attorney Member
Posted by Wayne Parsons
May 07, 2009 2:05 PM

Edward: Thanks for the comment. Can you describe the exercise program that worked for you? Maybe I should try to publicize it here? What do you think?

John Robert Hankins
Posted by John Robert Hankins
May 07, 2009 3:28 PM

Mr. Parsons, I think you misunderstood Edward. He said at the time he credited his good health to the exercise program. I don't think he intended to promote it as a CURE for AIDS, which doesn't need a cure other than exposing the lie of HIV=AIDS pseudoscience and reasonable care of your physical and mental health.

I've never done any excercise program consistantly in my 23 years being HIV+. There was a period in my youth when I excerised to build my body but not my immune system. I also eat a lot of junkfood to this day and I'm as healthy and attractive as any 41 year old man. I can send you a picture verifying that if you post an email address to send it to. Or you can email my address directly with the right address to reply to.

Wayne ParsonsInjuryBoard Attorney Member
Posted by Wayne Parsons
May 07, 2009 3:32 PM

Thanks. I see what you mean.

Wayne ParsonsInjuryBoard Attorney Member
Posted by Wayne Parsons
May 07, 2009 3:33 PM

I am wondering in anyone on this Comment list knows of any servicemen who have gotten HIV from colonoscopy and if any lawsuits have been filed about that?

John Robert Hankins
Posted by John Robert Hankins
May 07, 2009 3:55 PM

I really don't mean to talk down to you, but that question seems to miss the mark entirely. The huge lawsuits will come when the pseudoscience of HIV=AIDS is exposed not a serviceman getting HIV from a colonoscopy. I don't think Big Pharma has the money to pay out all the damages that will have to be paid. It will bankrupt them not to mention land some of them and some at the FDA and CDC in prison for a long time. I sent you an email and would gladly discuss things further via email.

Wayne ParsonsInjuryBoard Attorney Member
Posted by Wayne Parsons
May 07, 2009 4:08 PM

I asked for another reason. Someone asked me the question and I was trying to help them.

John Hankins
Posted by John Hankins
May 07, 2009 4:53 PM

Sorry Wayne, Like I said I didn't mean to talk down to you and I obviously missed that part of the discussion.

Elizabeth Ely
Posted by Elizabeth Ely
May 07, 2009 5:46 PM

Wayne,

Servicemen who have gotten HIV from colonoscopy. Hm.

Well, it's like this. The "HIV test" is itself controversial. It says right on the label that it doesn't diagnose any disease, actual or potential. And no studies link the proteins it picks up to any live, isolated virus.

Wayne, believe me, the test is crap. All positives are false-positives.

So this guy was told he is "infected" with a virus. He is told he is going to die unless he takes some Black Box drugs. He could get thrown out of the military. All of a sudden, everyone wants to know if he's secretly gay. He's told he probably got it from sex, and now his wife is divorcing him, and good luck finding a girlfriend unless he lies about the HIV -- in which case, she could charge him with reckless endangerment. And he can't get custody of his kids unless he takes the drugs -- and gets them tested and treated, too. He might commit suicide, thinking he's going to die anyway.

All based on a test result interpretationthat is scientifically unsupported. The good news is, he isn't going to die of any "HIV."

Who can he sue? He might sue the military for an unfounded diagnosis. Or the health clinic and counselors. Or his doctor. Or his wife. Or his employer. I mean, who wouldn't he be suing?

The only person he shouldn't be suing is the colonoscopy provider. That person didn't "give" him "HIV." There is no way to detect HIV, let alone documented ways that it's transmitted.

Beth

Wayne ParsonsInjuryBoard Attorney Member
Posted by Wayne Parsons
May 07, 2009 6:50 PM

No, it was my fault. I didn't explain. And I agree with your point. Good point. Thanks.

Charles "Gos" Rich
Posted by Charles "Gos" Rich
May 07, 2009 8:02 PM

Wayne,

I'll try to answer your question as best I can from the viewpoint of someone who actually believes in HIV.

If we accept that HIV exists and that it causes AIDS as we're told, then the conventional wisdom is that it cannot be transmitted by inanimate objects. Therefore, it is highly unlikely for someone to get HIV from an unsterilized colonoscope. (I'm assuming that your question is related to the recent VA scandal.)

HIV counselors caution HIV-positives not to share their razors, toothbrushes, or other items which might be exposed to blood, but they concede that there's no evidence that anyone has ever gotten HIV from a razor or toothbrush.

As for IV drug users who share dirty needles, it is believed that the virus can survive for a short period of time inside a syringe, but that exposure to air kills it quickly, therefore items such as razor blades, toothbrushes, or even unsterilized colonoscopes are generally considered "safe", unless there is a sufficient amount of extremely fresh blood and this blood actually enters the bloodstream of an uninfected person.

And even if this occurs, transmission is still not guaranteed. In a recent film, "House of Numbers", Dr. Luc Montagnier, who received the Nobel Prize for discovering HIV, explains that it is possible to be exposed numerous times without actually becoming infected.

So I would seriously doubt that anyone actually could become infected that way, much less could it result in a lawsuit.

On the other hand, there is one famous Florida case (Bergalis v Acer,) in which it was the opinion of the court that Kimberly Bergalis was accidentally infected with HIV by her dentist, David Acer. However, it was never demonstrated that it is possible for a dentist to infect his patient -- Acer was simply assumed to be the source of the infection since Bergalis had no other known risk factors, as she was a virgin and had never received a blood or tissue transfusion and had never used IV drugs.

Further investigation of the multiple successful lawsuits against Acer reveals that one of the patients that he supposedly infected had never actually been in the same room with Acer -- he'd merely been in the same building for a routine cleaning by a dental hygienist who worked in Acer's clinic. To date, there has been no explanation as to how Acer could have infected this particular patient.

--- Gos
--- gos@nerosopeningact.com
"Nobody here but us heretics..."

Wayne ParsonsInjuryBoard Attorney Member
Posted by Wayne Parsons
May 07, 2009 8:08 PM

Thanks Gos. Very interesting. On all sides of this virus I find things I didn't know. Someone had asked if I knew any attys handling lawsuits over the VA thing. Apparently not.

Michael Ellner
Posted by Michael Ellner
May 07, 2009 8:49 PM

Hi Wayne,

Just for the heck of it -- Ask some of your doctor friends to explain the difference between testing positive for prior exposure to an infection and testing positive for an active infection... Even under the best of condiitions - testing positive on an antibody test is never more than proof of prior infection...

You have just discovered that there is absolutely no scientific evidence that any one is infected with HIV. There is no evidence that IV-drug users infect each other or their partners. There is no evidence that gay men infect each and there is no evidence that blood product recipients are infected.
All we know about these people is that they tested positive on a non-specific antibody test...

The link below is a news NY Times article concerning Dr Acer and his patients-- is on topic and should be of interest.

More ...

Michael E.

Wayne ParsonsInjuryBoard Attorney Member
Posted by Wayne Parsons
May 07, 2009 9:03 PM

Thanks - I'll do that. Any doctors readiong this are welcome to answer.

Edward Lieb
Posted by Edward Lieb
May 08, 2009 12:31 AM

The exercise I do is called rebound exercise or simply rebounding. It is a vertical exercise performed on a small mini-trampoline-like device. It differs from a mini-tram in that it is designed to provide a rapid vertical oscillation that pumps the lymphatic system more efficiently than any other exercise, unlike trampolines which are designed to provide lift. There is much documentation on the web. Rebounders are a common thread in literally all of the alternative clinics, in the US and abroad, where people recover from cancer without surgery, radiation or chemotherapy. I originally thought it was THE cure for AIDS, but as it turns out, it is one cure. The common thread in people who recover or never succumb to AIDS is that they fire their doctors and take control of their own health. However, in my opinion, after more than 30 years of researching "cures," observing others and practicing on myself, I honestly believe that daily rebound exercise is the number one thing people can do for health. You can find a brief explanation at my sorely-in-need-of-updating web site, sobehealthy.com. You can see a picture of me at 62 on my rebounder at myspace.com/sobehealthy.

Wayne ParsonsInjuryBoard Attorney Member
Posted by Wayne Parsons
May 08, 2009 3:06 AM

Way to go! I just got back from walking the hill I live on. Exercise is important!

Edward Lieb
Posted by Edward Lieb
May 08, 2009 4:32 AM

True, Wayne. Exercise is important, and walking is a great exercise, but rebound exercise is unique in that it strengthens every cell in your body. As you bounce, you fluctuate between extra g-force at the bottom of the bounce and weightlessness at the top. As each cell is compressed at the bottom of the bounce, it gets rid of more waste products. At the top, it absorbs more nutrients. Besides being a cellular exercise, it pumps the lymph system. The lymph flows through one-way valves. As you bounce, your lymph gets flowing 16 to 20 times faster than normally, flushing toxins out of the body. While I've never seen documentation for it, I believe it also strengthens your energy field in a unique way as we oscillate in the earth's magnetic field -- somewhat like a generator.

Gravity is the common denominator in all exercise. As rebounding is a vertical exercise, it opposes gravity 100% making it more efficient. You could walk for an hour, but you wouldn't get the benefits you'd get from 15 to 20 minutes on a rebounder.

Wayne ParsonsInjuryBoard Attorney Member
Posted by Wayne Parsons
May 08, 2009 4:55 AM

Thanks Edward. We are all bombarded with health ideas and it is great to hear from someone who has done it. I think I am going to Blog on exercise and health and will include your ideas. I know that Injury Board attorneys are _ at first glance _ trail lawyers who represent injured people and victims of discrimination in lawsuits, but our mission is to improve safety, improve health care and become members of the community. Your messages have added to the reason I am here. I don't don't do the slick advertising of some of the big lawyer marketing programs. Tom Young and Nick Carroll who created Injury Board believe that attorneys need to get back to being good members of the community. This thread on HIV/AIDS has blown me away. I was totally ignorant ... and I read the papers, watch the news and I thought I knew this subject. Terrific to get to exchange ideas. I am getting a Rebounder!

John Hankins
Posted by John Hankins
May 08, 2009 7:19 AM

"rebound exercise is unique in that it strengthens every cell in your body. As you bounce, you fluctuate between extra g-force at the bottom of the bounce and weightlessness at the top. As each cell is compressed at the bottom of the bounce, it gets rid of more waste products. At the top, it absorbs more nutrients. Besides being a cellular exercise, it pumps the lymph system. The lymph flows through one-way valves. As you bounce, your lymph gets flowing 16 to 20 times faster than normally, flushing toxins out of the body. While I've never seen documentation for it, I believe it also strengthens your energy field in a unique way as we oscillate in the earth's magnetic field -- somewhat like a generator. Gravity is the common denominator in all exercise. As rebounding is a vertical exercise, it opposes gravity 100% making it more efficient. You could walk for an hour, but you wouldn't get the benefits you'd get from 15 to 20 minutes on a rebounder." That's some serious pseudoscience if I ever heard it. I don't have a rebounder and I'm in perfect health. No-one can deny the benefits of exercise, but to make "factual" statements of theories is dangerous as well. Ed, you should stay away from giving health care advice and start an infomercial. Are you a sales rep for the rebounder? We all no there's plenty of orthodox pseudoscience "documentation" out there, but they obviously don't have a monopoly. LOL

Gene Semon
Posted by Gene Semon
May 08, 2009 8:38 AM

Wayne, I think you can see that those who object to HIV causing AIDS model nare not monolithic in thinking about what constitutes good health science.

I believe one can deduce the benefits of pumping the lymph system for better "drainage" from Guyton's physiology textbook which has a chapter on lymphatic system and "waste" removal. The rebounder may not be the only way to accomplish this.

On the other hand my good friend Edward and I may disagree on the benefits of "superfoods".

Enough said on that, I don't want anyone to accuse me of pusshing Green Vibrance at More ... :o)

Charles "Gos" Rich
Posted by Charles "Gos" Rich
May 08, 2009 9:24 AM

Wayne wrote: "This thread on HIV/AIDS has blown me away. I was totally ignorant ... and I read the papers, watch the news and I thought I knew this subject."

I can so relate to what you're saying. Before I was (mis)diagnosed HIV-positive, I was already more knowledgeable than most lay people. After I tested positive, I did a lot of research and learned 10X more than I'd ever known before. Then when I accidentally stumbled across virusmyth.com, I learned pretty quickly that I didn't know a damned thing.

The sad fact is that most people simply don't investigate, because they don't have a reason to care. Only 1 out of 250 Americans is estimated to be infected, which means that most people don't even know anyone with HIV, much less do their own lives depend on learning as much as possible about it (which I must admit is the only reason I investigated it so thoroughly myself -- until it personally affected me, I'm sad to say that I was content to soak up whatever the media told me about HIV and consider myself a pretty knowledgeable guy.)

--- Gos
--- gos@nerosopeningact.com
"Nobody here but us heretics..."

John Robert Hankins
Posted by John Robert Hankins
May 08, 2009 10:43 AM

"I honestly believe that daily rebound exercise is the number one thing people can do for health."

Sorry Ed, I was having a bad day because I got a hate email from this horrible ugly person who uses nasty foul language and called Christine names I cannot repeat. He also told me he hoped I died a horrible AIDS death and to say hi to Christine in Hell!

I think it's great the you believe in something that is likely good for your health, but I don't think it's the number one thing and I don't agree with the "science" theory stated as fact either. I've been "poz" for 23 years and I don't have a rebounder and I eat junkfood and I'm as healthy as any other 42 year old and I'm in good shape as well.

There are many people that say their method is the best method. For me, my method is being free-spirited, free of shame and guilt, and being able to forgive others who are full of fear/hate and are obviously spiritually, socially, and emotionally bankrupt.

Peace and Love, John

Elizabeth Ely
Posted by Elizabeth Ely
May 08, 2009 11:08 AM

This is where we questioners get accused of quackery, as if we bounced on a trampoline and beat HIV. Not one of us, including Ed Lieb, is even measuring HIV. People just get healthy when they do those things. It proves that HIV is irrelevant.

When somebody says something "cures AIDS," they're both right and wrong. The president of Gambia found something that helps people with malaria or malnutrition or chronic fatigue and says it "cures AIDS." If AIDS IS those things, then it cures AIDS. But nobody has found that it has any effect on HIV, because there's no way to measure HIV. Even "viral load" is just a product label. It doesn't count any virus.

Michael Ellner has this material down cold and is your best source among the posters here. He says that the tests don't find actual HIV. That's the liability in all this. Sue the people who say HIV positive means something, because they're talking nonsense.

"Gos" Rich says he believes in HIV. Heck, so does Peter Duesberg. But we all agree, I think, that the test doesn't pick it up even if it does exist. So when somebody says they "got HIV" from their dentist or a toothbrush or from having sex, what they're really saying is, they went to the dentist or brushed their teeth or got laid and later "tested positive." Two unrelated events, related only by the fantasy that associating with someone who's supposedly contaminated (like a gay dentist) will give you cooties.

I have some questions for you, Wayne, when you have a few minutes. You know my number. Beth

Charles "Gos" Rich
Posted by Charles "Gos" Rich
May 08, 2009 11:37 AM

Wayne,

The "Christine" that John refers to in the above post was Christine Maggiore, a personal friend of mine and of several other participants in this discussion. VERY interesting story there -- Christine died (supposedly of AIDS) last December 27, 3 1/2 years after her three-year-old daughter died of an "AIDS-related" amoxicillin allergy. (More ... )

What makes this story so interesting is that Christine tested negative repeatedly more than a year after she tested positive, which, according to the current conventional wisdom, meant that she was a false-positive and therefore HIV-negative. In fact, her critics insisted that she was HIV-negative (More ... ) until her daughter's death was made public -- then they suddenly changed their tune and started dancing on her daughter's grave and publicly calling her a murderer until she finally succumbed to the constant stress and died.

Christine's story leaves us with an example of why you don't hear about this stuff in the media -- there are powerful, moneyed interests who literally pay to keep the story suppressed, and to ensure that people like Christine Maggiore are subjected to public ridicule on TV. 60 days before Christine died, she was the subject of an episode of Law & Order: Special Victims' Unit. (More ... ) In this episode, the character who represented Christine dies a horrible death.

When she watched the episode, it had an immediate effect on her health, causing her to develop a rash. (More ... ) 60 days later, she died.

It later turned out that that particular episode of L&O: SVU was financed by a grant from the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation. (More ... )

If you still have any questions about why the media doesn't cover this story, open your favorite news magazine or turn on your TV and count the pharmaceutical ads, the ads for Trojan products, and the "AIDS awareness" PSAs, and consider that on top of the billions in advertising revenue that these ads represent, there are moneyed interests who are willing to pay outright for programming and for news coverage favorable to their own interests.

There is, however, the occasional media outlet that steps out of line and reports the REAL story about AIDS. One of these was an article a few years ago in Harper's. I highly recommend it. (More ... )

--- Gos

Charles "Gos" Rich
Posted by Charles "Gos" Rich
May 08, 2009 11:43 AM

Elizabeth,

I think you may have misunderstood my earlier comment. I do not believe in HIV (or at the very least I have yet to see proof of its existence.) Last year, I had a debate with a biologist. (More ... ) After 5 months of debating, he was unable to come up with a single shred of proof that HIV exists, much less that it causes AIDS.

What I was saying to Wayne is that I was answering his question as it would be answered by someone who actually believes that HIV exists and that it causes AIDS. In that context, I'm fairly sure that my answer was accurate, even though it's not what I personally believe, based on my own experience and research.

--- Gos

Elizabeth Ely
Posted by Elizabeth Ely
May 12, 2009 6:14 PM

That's fine, Gos.

Comments for this article are closed.

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